Not a great episode, but I liked it. Not sure where this is going.
The big revelation is that young Ben is already in the Dharma camp with Sawyer and the gang. So this means Ben must recognize all of them when their Oceanic plane crashes in the future. I can understand Danielle not recognizing Jin, whom she met for only a few hours, but Ben is living with these people. He MUST recognize them later on. That kind of bothers me. I know the writers were not planning that all along, because Ben wasn't supposed to be a regular character. The actor did such a good job that they wrote him a bigger part. Not sure how I feel about this revisionist history.
Christian Shepherd in the doorway was VERY creepy. The Dharma photo was way cool.
One of my biggest disappointments in the show, is that this time travel stuff seems to have been added on... as if the Producers didn't always intend for it to come into play. But last night, something very cool happened which might indicate that the Producers were thinking ahead. Way back in Season 2 or 3, when Jack, Sawyer and Kate are captured by The Others and brought to the small island, they were put to work in the jungle. When they asked what they were building, they were told "a runway". Did The Others know that Lapidus was going to land a plane there in 3 years? Maybe Ben tells them to build the runway so his crashing plane has a place to land. Very cool.
I just read something really cool. In the scene where Christian Shepherd is showing Sun the picture of Jin, in the background (of the room, not the photo) you can see two people crouching behind a filing cabinet. Did anyone cath that? I'll have to watch it again tonight.
Another cool thing I forgot to mention was the return of the whispers, right before Christian showed up. Was that Smokey knocking down trees too? Is this confirmation that Christian is being recreated by the smoke monster?
Here's a link to some stills and video showing two people crouching behind Sun. What do you think? Are they production people who got trapped on camera?
I need to pay more attention when I watch this show. Here's something I missed. Ethan is Horace's son. But Ethan doesn't die in the massacre. Somehow he joins the Hostiles, like Ben. I wonder if there are others who betray Dharma.
You're echoing a complaint I've had all season about the poorly thought-out time travel arc. Now they're doing everything in their power to make the continuity work ("I'll name him Ethan"). Sigh...
I find myself wondering about the purpose of the show. It used to be about survival and rescue, then it was about getting back to the island, but now that they're back (and in the 70's)...what's the point? Save the world from an electromagnetic catastrophe?
And weren't there a bunch of other survivors from the original 815 crash still running around somewhere? Rose, Bernard, and a gaggle of nameless extras who the writers never bothered to explore? The last time we saw them, they were running from flaming arrows. So were they hopping through time as well? Were they all killed by the arrow assault?
My favorite scene this week was the one at the end between Jack and Sawyer. I really dig the evolution of Sawyer the strategist. I just hope they don't reset the character development back to the Sawyer/Jack/Kate love triangle that they've been beating into the ground since season 1.
If there's one character I'd like them to revisit in the past, it's Patchy.
Did Faraday go back to the mainland?
I thought Ben was relatively young when he slaughtered Dharma. So that would make Ethan like 10-15 when it goes down, right?
Is Christian Shepherd created by Smokey, or is he just controlling Smokey? Is Christian Shepherd some kind of counter-balance to Richard Alpert? They both seem to come and go as they please on the island...
Maybe the scrubs were killed by flaming arrows, but they have to explain what happened to Rose and her husband. Do we know who was shooting those arrows? My guess is they were captured.
I think we're going to have a few new recurring characters soon, courtesy of the plane crash. You have that Latino guy and the female Marshall, and I recognized at least one other face amongst those passengers as a legitimate actor and not just an extra.
I dont have a problem with Ben knowing them from the past. Ben always seemed to mysteriously know everything about the survivors in the early season and it was always explained by these mysterious files that they had that knew every personal detail about these characters. It would make sense if Ben knew them, that he would gather the info. Why he would encourage them to go back and recreate the events that will play out is a mystery.
I can barely make out that anyone is behind Sun's shoulder. Plus they would be in plain sight to Christian which would be weird. It reminds me of the scene when Ana Lucia is about to kill Goodwin and a tiny white car in the background drives by the road behind them.
My assumption is that since Ethan is not name Ethan Goodspeed, he gets abducted and raised by the Others, thereby putting him away from the Initiative when they are killed off.
Isn't radzinsky the guy Desmond says was in the hatch who was partnered with Kelvin Innman? Radzinsky was supposed to have made the map on the blast door. Why would he have not know the locations of all the hatches and their names if he was the central watch over their camp (as Jin seems to indicate by saying Radzinsky would know if there was a plane crashing on the island), was communicating to all the hatches and was helping to create the Swan in the first place? Why would he and Kelvin have to explore the island in the first place to find hatches and make a map. If Radzinsky knew the purpose of the Swan and knew that you really did have to push the button every 108 minutes, why would he kill himself and leave Kelvin to do the job alone?
I don't remember Radzinsky at all. That's a good catch. I can understand the suicide. Once you're dead, who cares what happens. Maybe some of the stations were new. He's apparently designing The Swan in this episode, so maybe he gets reassigned to oversee building it, and doesn't know about the other stations being simultaneously built. Of course, I'm grasping, but at this point, I think Lost has done a pretty good job of keeping track of all the threads. I find it hard to believe they'd make such a huge mistake with Radzinsky.
I forgot about the abduction of children. Makes perfect sense. It also makes the Ethan reveal less of a throw-away, in my book.
1. A possible reasoning for why Sun & Ben did not flash off the plane into 1977 with the other Losties, but instead crashed into what we assume is 2007.... It could possibly be due to the fact that it happens so that they don't run into their earlier 1977 selves on the island. We know already that Ben, as a boy grew up most of his childhood in Dharma. Now originally I was thinking that Pierre Chang's baby (as seen in the first episode of the season) was possibly Miles. Now I am thinking that maybe it could possibly be Sun. And she was taken away from the island at an early age and possibly adopted/raised or related to Mr. & Mrs. Paik or something. Either that or at some point in the past Mr. Paik was on the island too! I have a feeling there may be more of a tie in with Mr. Paik down the line. But a hole in my theory would be that: Why, when the Losties who stayed back on the island where flashing back and forth through time....they were allowed to be in the same time/year/2004 when they were inhabiting the island....Locke was close by and saw the light shine up through the hatch door and knew that night he had been there, sawyer saw kate delivering claire's baby. Also wondering Lapidus' status...had he been on the island 30 years prior? We don't know for sure.
2. When Sun & Lapids return to "other villagage" it looks as if it is an alternate village of some sort. When the others lived there in 2004, they had cleaned up most of the Dharma stuff. But when Sun & Lapids return we see Dharma registration signs that had fallen over etc. Plus.....the fact that there are photos of the Losties from Dharma registration 1977....wouldn't anyone (of the 2004 others) have ever noticed that....including Juliet from 2004? I know that the village got pretty messed up after Kemy and crew & the smoke monster were there.....but I don't remember it looking quite like that with all of the Dharma signs etc. I am wondering, are they in an alternate timeline now, due to the fact that the Losties back in 1977 somehow did something to alter the future. I know that Daniel said that it didn't matter, no matter what you do, it won't change the future. But what if he was wrong, there was something he didn't realize, or possibly he was just lying?.......
3. And finally, something I heard from someone else: If we remember, when Ben showed Locke the pit of Dharma bodies from the purge and he said to him "I was one of the people that was smart enough to make sure that I didn't end up in that ditch"..... "one of the people"...... which means that Ben was not the only surviving member of Dharma that converted over to a hostile/other. Obviously, we now know that Ian was one of them....but also I believe his mother Amy came over as well. In the episode where we see the crash (from the view of the others), Juliet is having her book club, and a woman named Amelia arrives early and is talking with her. She also jokes with Ethan on the way there. The question here for me is....if this is indeed Amy, they either 1. Changed her name so Juliet wouldn't recognize/remember her.... if that's possible? or to not create any sort of riff in the time line, or 2. Does Juliet know this all along and is wiser about everything that is going on than she lets the Losties know? Predestination paradox or something? Alternate timelines? Just some random thoughts/theories that may or may not work out that have been rattling around in my noggin.
Also in response to monsteratomic. Yes Radzinsky is one of the original guys with Kelvin down in the hatch/swan who presses the button. It was interesting to see him now in 77 in the planning stages of the Swan. He seemed very concerned with a "hostile" (syaid) seeing the plans, which makes me feel that the swan station is meant to be a secret from the hostiles, which makes me think that they probably would build it somewhere that they saw that the hostiles didn't frequent too often.....which leads me to think that we'll find out in future episodes that the hatch/swan is build over the Jughead atomic bomb which was buried in cement or something underground....which would explain why the hostiles wouldn't go over there a lot to even find the swan. So some Dharma members do survive the purge- one of them being Radzinsky b/c he's been down in the hatch(maybe he didn't even know there was a purge)....he was probably told that it was toxic outside so that he would never come out (and risk the hostiles finding him/the swan station) and stop pushing the button. Which worked out for awhile....that is, until he blew his brains out b/c he went all "Shining" on us. So, what I think this season is leading up to is "the happening" which Marivn Candle references in the orientation video....the happening possibly being something to do with Jughead, the swan, and/or a rip in time or something....which is why they have to keep pressing the button every 108 minutes. I think that we'll probably possibly see the purge events leading up to the end of season 6 possibly? But more likely, I think we'll see "the happening" by the end of season 5.
12 comments:
Not a great episode, but I liked it. Not sure where this is going.
The big revelation is that young Ben is already in the Dharma camp with Sawyer and the gang. So this means Ben must recognize all of them when their Oceanic plane crashes in the future. I can understand Danielle not recognizing Jin, whom she met for only a few hours, but Ben is living with these people. He MUST recognize them later on. That kind of bothers me. I know the writers were not planning that all along, because Ben wasn't supposed to be a regular character. The actor did such a good job that they wrote him a bigger part. Not sure how I feel about this revisionist history.
Christian Shepherd in the doorway was VERY creepy. The Dharma photo was way cool.
One of my biggest disappointments in the show, is that this time travel stuff seems to have been added on... as if the Producers didn't always intend for it to come into play. But last night, something very cool happened which might indicate that the Producers were thinking ahead. Way back in Season 2 or 3, when Jack, Sawyer and Kate are captured by The Others and brought to the small island, they were put to work in the jungle. When they asked what they were building, they were told "a runway". Did The Others know that Lapidus was going to land a plane there in 3 years? Maybe Ben tells them to build the runway so his crashing plane has a place to land. Very cool.
I just read something really cool. In the scene where Christian Shepherd is showing Sun the picture of Jin, in the background (of the room, not the photo) you can see two people crouching behind a filing cabinet. Did anyone cath that? I'll have to watch it again tonight.
Another cool thing I forgot to mention was the return of the whispers, right before Christian showed up. Was that Smokey knocking down trees too? Is this confirmation that Christian is being recreated by the smoke monster?
Here's a link to some stills and video showing two people crouching behind Sun. What do you think? Are they production people who got trapped on camera?
http://tinyurl.com/cvbc3l
I need to pay more attention when I watch this show. Here's something I missed. Ethan is Horace's son. But Ethan doesn't die in the massacre. Somehow he joins the Hostiles, like Ben. I wonder if there are others who betray Dharma.
You're echoing a complaint I've had all season about the poorly thought-out time travel arc. Now they're doing everything in their power to make the continuity work ("I'll name him Ethan"). Sigh...
I find myself wondering about the purpose of the show. It used to be about survival and rescue, then it was about getting back to the island, but now that they're back (and in the 70's)...what's the point? Save the world from an electromagnetic catastrophe?
And weren't there a bunch of other survivors from the original 815 crash still running around somewhere? Rose, Bernard, and a gaggle of nameless extras who the writers never bothered to explore? The last time we saw them, they were running from flaming arrows. So were they hopping through time as well? Were they all killed by the arrow assault?
My favorite scene this week was the one at the end between Jack and Sawyer. I really dig the evolution of Sawyer the strategist. I just hope they don't reset the character development back to the Sawyer/Jack/Kate love triangle that they've been beating into the ground since season 1.
If there's one character I'd like them to revisit in the past, it's Patchy.
Did Faraday go back to the mainland?
I thought Ben was relatively young when he slaughtered Dharma. So that would make Ethan like 10-15 when it goes down, right?
Is Christian Shepherd created by Smokey, or is he just controlling Smokey? Is Christian Shepherd some kind of counter-balance to Richard Alpert? They both seem to come and go as they please on the island...
Maybe the scrubs were killed by flaming arrows, but they have to explain what happened to Rose and her husband. Do we know who was shooting those arrows? My guess is they were captured.
I think we're going to have a few new recurring characters soon, courtesy of the plane crash. You have that Latino guy and the female Marshall, and I recognized at least one other face amongst those passengers as a legitimate actor and not just an extra.
I dont have a problem with Ben knowing them from the past. Ben always seemed to mysteriously know everything about the survivors in the early season and it was always explained by these mysterious files that they had that knew every personal detail about these characters. It would make sense if Ben knew them, that he would gather the info. Why he would encourage them to go back and recreate the events that will play out is a mystery.
I can barely make out that anyone is behind Sun's shoulder. Plus they would be in plain sight to Christian which would be weird. It reminds me of the scene when Ana Lucia is about to kill Goodwin and a tiny white car in the background drives by the road behind them.
My assumption is that since Ethan is not name Ethan Goodspeed, he gets abducted and raised by the Others, thereby putting him away from the Initiative when they are killed off.
Isn't radzinsky the guy Desmond says was in the hatch who was partnered with Kelvin Innman? Radzinsky was supposed to have made the map on the blast door. Why would he have not know the locations of all the hatches and their names if he was the central watch over their camp (as Jin seems to indicate by saying Radzinsky would know if there was a plane crashing on the island), was communicating to all the hatches and was helping to create the Swan in the first place? Why would he and Kelvin have to explore the island in the first place to find hatches and make a map. If Radzinsky knew the purpose of the Swan and knew that you really did have to push the button every 108 minutes, why would he kill himself and leave Kelvin to do the job alone?
I don't remember Radzinsky at all. That's a good catch. I can understand the suicide. Once you're dead, who cares what happens. Maybe some of the stations were new. He's apparently designing The Swan in this episode, so maybe he gets reassigned to oversee building it, and doesn't know about the other stations being simultaneously built. Of course, I'm grasping, but at this point, I think Lost has done a pretty good job of keeping track of all the threads. I find it hard to believe they'd make such a huge mistake with Radzinsky.
I forgot about the abduction of children. Makes perfect sense. It also makes the Ethan reveal less of a throw-away, in my book.
Ok so a few thoughts after viewing Namaste:
1. A possible reasoning for why Sun & Ben did not flash off the plane
into 1977 with the other Losties, but instead crashed into what we
assume is 2007....
It could possibly be due to the fact that it happens so that they
don't run into their earlier 1977 selves on the island. We know
already that Ben, as a boy grew up most of his childhood in Dharma.
Now originally I was thinking that Pierre Chang's baby (as seen in the
first episode of the season) was possibly Miles. Now I am thinking
that maybe it could possibly be Sun. And she was taken away from the
island at an early age and possibly adopted/raised or related to Mr.
& Mrs. Paik or something. Either that or at some point in the past Mr.
Paik was on the island too! I have a feeling there may be more of a
tie in with Mr. Paik down the line. But a hole in my theory would be
that: Why, when the Losties who stayed back on the island where
flashing back and forth through time....they were allowed to be in the
same time/year/2004 when they were inhabiting the island....Locke was
close by and saw the light shine up through the hatch door and knew
that night he had been there, sawyer saw kate delivering claire's
baby. Also wondering Lapidus' status...had he been on the island 30
years prior? We don't know for sure.
2. When Sun & Lapids return to "other villagage" it looks as if it is
an alternate village of some sort.
When the others lived there in 2004, they had cleaned up most of the
Dharma stuff. But when Sun & Lapids return we see Dharma registration
signs that had fallen over etc. Plus.....the fact that there are
photos of the Losties from Dharma registration 1977....wouldn't anyone
(of the 2004 others) have ever noticed that....including Juliet from
2004? I know that the village got pretty messed up after Kemy and
crew & the smoke monster were there.....but I don't remember it
looking quite like that with all of the Dharma signs etc. I am
wondering, are they in an alternate timeline now, due to the fact that
the Losties back in 1977 somehow did something to alter the future. I
know that Daniel said that it didn't matter, no matter what you do, it
won't change the future. But what if he was wrong, there was something
he didn't realize, or possibly he was just lying?.......
3. And finally, something I heard from someone else: If we remember,
when Ben showed Locke the pit of Dharma bodies from the purge and he
said to him "I was one of the people that was smart enough to make
sure that I didn't end up in that ditch"..... "one of the
people"...... which means that Ben was not the only surviving member
of Dharma that converted over to a hostile/other. Obviously, we now
know that Ian was one of them....but also I believe his mother Amy
came over as well. In the episode where we see the crash (from the
view of the others), Juliet is having her book club, and a woman named
Amelia arrives early and is talking with her. She also jokes with
Ethan on the way there. The question here for me is....if this is
indeed Amy, they either 1. Changed her name so Juliet wouldn't
recognize/remember her.... if that's possible? or to not create any
sort of riff in the time line, or 2. Does Juliet know this all along
and is wiser about everything that is going on than she lets the
Losties know? Predestination paradox or something?
Alternate timelines?
Just some random thoughts/theories that may or may not work out that
have been rattling around in my noggin.
I think I need an asprin.
Also in response to monsteratomic. Yes Radzinsky is one of the original guys with Kelvin down in the hatch/swan who presses the button.
It was interesting to see him now in 77 in the planning stages of the Swan. He seemed very concerned with a "hostile" (syaid) seeing the plans, which makes me feel that the swan station is meant to be a secret from the hostiles, which makes me think that they probably would build it somewhere that they saw that the hostiles didn't frequent too often.....which leads me to think that we'll find out in future episodes that the hatch/swan is build over the Jughead atomic bomb which was buried in cement or something underground....which would explain why the hostiles wouldn't go over there a lot to even find the swan. So some Dharma members do survive the purge- one of them being Radzinsky b/c he's been down in the hatch(maybe he didn't even know there was a purge)....he was probably told that it was toxic outside so that he would never come out (and risk the hostiles finding him/the swan station) and stop pushing the button. Which worked out for awhile....that is, until he blew his brains out b/c he went all "Shining" on us. So, what I think this season is leading up to is "the happening" which Marivn Candle references in the orientation video....the happening possibly being something to do with Jughead, the swan, and/or a rip in time or something....which is why they have to keep pressing the button every 108 minutes.
I think that we'll probably possibly see the purge events leading up to the end of season 6 possibly? But more likely, I think we'll see "the happening" by the end of season 5.
sorry....by "the happening," I meant to say "the incident"...i think that's how they phrase it.
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